Mistake on Our Part & Shocking News

[Fillip H.]

We take any recommendation we make very seriously, and wanted to make sure none of our customers got burned dealing with a company we said nice things about.

As you may be aware, we recently took on DarkWaltz4, the creator and coder of the popular vBCredits system. DarkWaltz (John) is now a part of the DBTech family, and DBTech is the new home of his vBCredits modification.

John kindly allowed Rob to continue to develop his own version of vBCredits at vbcredits.com, and on several occasions we were happy to recommend vbCredits.com products to people (http://www.dragonbyte-tech.com/threads/776-Hello?p=4146&viewfull=1#post4146), and we even offer a discount to vBCredits.com customers (which we will continue to do)

I did this because I have no problem with other companies who do a good job, and offer good products, and if I think they can help our users then I will recommend them.


Now the bad news:

We've received a few complaints about vbcredits.com over the past few days, ranging from support issues not being dealt with to, most shockingly of all, vBCredits.com staff hiding posts which criticise the company!

One of our long time customers Trekkan made some posts over on vbcredits.com. Because these questions were difficult ones which the owner had no real answer to, he resolved it by putting Trekkan on global ignore, so no other customers could see his complaints! What is worse is Trekkan is a PAYING CUSTOMER at vbcredits.com!

You can see evidence of this here:



It has been brought to my attention that the exact same thing has been done with our account over on vbcredits.com (even though as you can see, we have never done any such thing here at dragonbyte-tech.com)

Since this company censors users with complaints, and since we have received complaints about their lack of customer service and their unfulfilled promises (and god only knows how many other users have complained and had their posts hidden and are unaware of it) we have to revoke any recommendation we may have made, and apologise to any DBTech customers who may have been to the site and been shoddily treated.

We hope that Rob and the team at vbcredits.com realise that hiding customer complaints in the hope people don't find out is not the correct way to do business, and that it will put people off of purchasing from them.

I must point out that there is no evidence that Brad (TheMayhem on vbulletin.org - http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/member.php?u=22621 ) is aware of this behaviour, or even knows about how Rob handles complaints. I'm a big fan of Brad's work, and I hope that he has nothing to do with this. If anyone wants to let him know please feel free. I don't feel that it would go down well coming from us.

Feel free to express your opinion on the matter in this thread: We're very interested in how you guys feel about this, and whether or not you feel it's acceptable behaviour for a company.


Thanks for reading guys and sorry for any inconvenience.
- DBTech Ownership

 

[Cosmic]

Actually so disappointed with Rob and the vbcredits.com team over this.

Just want to offer my personal apologise to anyone who may have been convinced to go over there by my kind words about them. It was a mistake on my part and i do apologise.

We won't be having anything more to do with Rob after this disgraceful behaviour from him.

Cosmic

 

[chewbacca]

Wow, that's a real shame...
It reminds me of Invision Power.

 

[Bravo]

WOW. I always felt that he wasnt going to be pleased over Dark leaving and on that post about DBT having its version of vbc lol, I bet he dont even want people to know DBT vbcredits even exist. I mean how do you make products better if you dont take all complaints and critizism? One can not assume his software has no flaws and is the best. To be successfull you must take all critisim and complaints, which only furthers your improvements on such products. I truly think that was childish move to pull and can no longer trust in vbc.com, I for one am boycotting them for life.. Beside we have the original creator over here anyway and a team of talented coders, DBT VBC >>>>>>> to the max >>>>> VBC.com. Cant wait to see DBT vbc out do the living shit out of theres.

 

[Jeremy]

There are always two sides of a story and I'm not willing to make assumptions. I am new to the vB community and I heard there was some trouble in DBT's past as well. I don't know the details, but if we all have issues, let's not be so harsh.

 

[Cosmic]

There are always two sides of a story and I'm not willing to make assumptions. I am new to the vB community and I heard there was some trouble in DBT's past as well. I don't know the details, but if we all have issues, let's not be so harsh.

The only trouble in DBT's past would be my own I assume - at one point i was the co-owner of Inferno Technologies. The other owner left, and closed down all of the sites etc leaving myself and the customers unsure of what was going on. I've been open about that from the start, and offer discounts to any itech customers out of my own cut as way of apology.

You will never see us delete or hide someones posts because they are critical of us though, as we have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.

Rob has an account here on DBTech, he's not been banned or put on ignore like he has done with us at vbcredits.com, and he will have received this email, so hopefully he will respond here giving his "side" of the story. Given that in the past he has simply hidden posts he has no suitable answer for though...

Cosmic

 

[Trekkan]

While there are two sides to every story, the ENTIRE story is right there in the screenshots for all to see.

I made some personal observations about the product. I felt I was invited to do so as I got to that thread, by clicking a link I was sent in an email from VBC. As a paying customer of two of their products (credits and commerce) I felt that they should know why I am going to choose to stop using their product for another. As it stands, if I hadn't found out that I was censored there and needed support for products I've paid for, no one else but the admins would see the posts.

There is no malice in my post, only my personal feelings as to why I am making the decision I am making. When I was told they were going to offer a non-IonCube version, I asked the cost. After-all if it was going to cost 5 bucks (of course it wouldn't), but if I felt that the differences between DBT's version and theirs was minimal, but the cost was vastly different... I'm going to make the choice that is best for myself, my website and my money.

Censoring me (without even telling me) is just bad practice and speaks much more to their character over there than any post of mine could ever have done.

As always, we'll all make our own decisions as to what we do with our time and money. Hopefully this issue will help people make a more informed decision when they next decide to purchase a product.

 

[hornstar]

It is a shame. I also noticed that threads have been going missing. I hope you don't mind me posting this here, as I noticed you posted this over there and now it appears to be gone (or there site is bugged, it said No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator)

Anyway:

Just wanted to pop in to clarify DragonByte Techs position =)

We plan on continuing development on top of the current vBCredits framework with DarkWaltz4 as the coder.

At the moment we have no plans to do anything with the other pixelFX studios mods (commerce, tracker etc)

Theres no big dark secret or reason as to why DarkWaltz has joined our team by the way. PixelFX is a great guy, and it's been real easy working with him on the transition, and he's made sure the customers have been at the forefront of his mind during the whole thing, which made it really easy for us, because it's the same position we're coming from =)

It was just a situation where Dark felt that the DBTech team offered him an environment that would be more conducive to his work based on how he likes to work.

I want to make it clear that theres no hard feelings between DBTech and vbcredits.com / PixelFX studios =)

As PixelFX mentioned, there is a version of Triple Triad already at DBTech which is very advanced and bug free, you should check it out (Thanks for mentioning it PixelFX)

=) Competition is almost always a good thing, It gives you guys more choices and options and inspires everyone to work better and harder.

I hope it's ok to mention this (Feel free to remove if not) But one of the things DarkWaltz4 insisted upon when joining our team is that vBCredits customers get a discount at DragoByte Tech.

Not only are any VBCredits.com customers eligible for a discount on the upcoming points/credits system from us, but will also receive a discount on all of our other products. PMing me on the dragonbyte Tech forums with a screenshot of your paypal transaction will give you eligibility for this =)

Good Luck to PixelFX and the team, we at DragonByte Technologies expect great things of you guys and look forward to the competition =)

That was posted in a thread, and the whole thing went.

I also noted some other posts the other week which was saying that vbcredits will be released here (vbcredits.com) and not on any other 3rd party site. I thought that was strange.

Anyway, you should edit your post in the other thread where you gave them a recommendation. You don't want others to still be mislead ^^

 

[Fillip H.]

Anyway, you should edit your post in the other thread where you gave them a recommendation. You don't want others to still be mislead ^^

Being done, attached here is the original post:

 

[Cosmic]

It is a shame. I also noticed that threads have been going missing. I hope you don't mind me posting this here, as I noticed you posted this over there and now it appears to be gone (or there site is bugged, it said No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator)

Anyway:



That was posted in a thread, and the whole thing went.

I also noted some other posts the other week which was saying that vbcredits will be released here (vbcredits.com) and not on any other 3rd party site. I thought that was strange.

Anyway, you should edit your post in the other thread where you gave them a recommendation. You don't want others to still be mislead ^^

Thanks for saving/posting that, it's appreciated and helps to prove what i was saying.

Also took your advice and edited that post, after Fillip grabbed a screenshot of it pre edit =)

 

[Patrick]

I am not a customer of DBT but I am over at VBC and I feel that sending out an email to all of your customers bashing VBC before hearing Rob's point of view is quite unprofessional. I understand it looks bad from the screenshots but the issue is not one to go bashing another company over. I feel that this is just a tactic to get back at VBC. I find it a coincidence that Darkwaltz comes here and then the bashing starts.

Just my point of view. I honestly could care less about either company. Grow up guys this is the real world, how much do you really want to know. Lots of things are covered up daily, move on.

 

[Cosmic]

I am not a customer of DBT but I am over at VBC and I feel that sending out an email to all of your customers bashing VBC before hearing Rob's point of view is quite unprofessional. I understand it looks bad from the screenshots but the issue is not one to go bashing another company over. I feel that this is just a tactic to get back at VBC. I find it a coincidence that Darkwaltz comes here and then the bashing starts.

Just my point of view. I honestly could care less about either company. Grow up guys this is the real world, how much do you really want to know. Lots of things are covered up daily, move on.

Thanks for your input patrick =)

As you can see from the first page on this thread, We've been nothing but respectful to vbcredits and rob, and i've even went so far as to recommend them. (Both here on DBTech, and on vbcredits.com - I believe i was even complimentary on vb.org. All of this was when Dark was part of our team)

When i recommend a company, I mean it. It's a personal thing, it's me saying to my customers and clients that i've checked these guys out, and i think they're good guys and can help you.

When a company i've done that for turns around and starts censoring and hiding posts that criticise them, or that point out bugs/flaws in their software, then it's a big deal to me - a *huge* deal.

I've put my reputation on the line recommending these guys, and now they're going around hiding things their paying customers are saying because they don't agree with it. God only knows what else they are hiding, so as soon as i find that out of course I want to let my customers know that I was wrong, I made a mistake about these guys, and they're being dishonest

You'll notice that your post, while critical, has not been edited, hidden, deleted or anything like that. I've even quoted it for prosterity. Thats in stark contrast to what goes on at vbcredits.com. Rob has seen this thread - he received the email about it, and he's been here and read it already - he's got full posting privelages here, and if he has some defence for his actions i would love to hear it.

Oh and Darkwaltz has been on the team for several weeks now, and this is the first time i have said anything negative about Rob or vbcredits.com, and it's being said purely because i made the mistake of recommending them before and my word and recommendation means a lot to me, and I hope it does to our customers also.

Hope that clears up why I had to inform people of this,

Cosmic

 

[Patrick]

I understand that totally. Your post doesn't really come across that way though. The post that was "Censored" didn't really criticize the company. Using Ioncube encoders is what almost every successful script uses so people don't modify the source to get it for free etc. Are you sure there wasn't a post already explaining why they use Ioncube or if they are going to release non encrypted files. I trash posts all the time that have already been addressed. Do you know why he removed it, he could have in his mind be doing something harmless and you blew it out of proportion. I would just like to hear the other side from VBC.

Did he read this page? http://www.vbcredits.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vbcic_gn#faq_vbcic_gn_why

Like I said, if it's a "useless" post why keep it.

 

[Cosmic]

I understand that totally. Your post doesn't really come across that way though. The post that was "Censored" didn't really criticize the company. Using Ioncube encoders is what almost every successful script uses so people don't modify the source to get it for free etc. Are you sure there wasn't a post already explaining why they use Ioncube or if they are going to release non encrypted files. I trash posts all the time that have already been addressed. Do you know why he removed it, he could have in his mind be doing something harmless and you blew it out of proportion. I would just like to hear the other side from VBC.

Did he read this page? http://www.vbcredits.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vbcic_gn#faq_vbcic_gn_why

Like I said, if it's a "useless" post why keep it.

That would be understandable, but he didn't trash the post.

he put the user on global ignore. What this means is the user can see his posts, as can staff, but no other members of the forum can see his posts - this goes for any post, not just that one.

He done the exact same thing to my account there as well I have discovered.

It raises questions about who else has been silenced/censored and doesn't know about it. How many other people have been critical of vbcredits.com and Rob has simply placed them on global ignore so no other members or customers will find out about it?

EDIT: He didn't inform me, or the customer, that they had been placed on ignore either - it's likely they wouldn't have noticed but for a fortuitous coincidence.

If you want to check if you have been put on global ignore for saying something they disagree with, try logging out and viewing one of your posts. If you are on the ignore list, it won't show up, but it'll reappear when you log back in. It's a very sneaky and underhanded thing to do IMO.

 

[Patrick]

Understandable, and since I really have nothing to do with either companies I think it's time for me to go back in my hole. I just was a little concerned when I opened my inbox and saw an email from a good company bashing another. If VBC comes and comments I will sure read that. Also your responses are quick, I might have to look into some of DBT's products

P.S.
I love the purple skin

 

[Trekkan]

Also, I wasn't asking WHY they used IonCube, I was stating that I didn't like it and it was one of my reasons for no longer using their products. You can read that in the first screenshot.

If my posts were deemed "useless", I find it odd that the only other post by a non-staff member there simply says "Great news! Congrats!" and is visible to all. I guess "useful" is in the eye of the beholder(read: admin).

 

[Cosmic]

Understandable, and since I really have nothing to do with either companies I think it's time for me to go back in my hole. I just was a little concerned when I opened my inbox and saw an email from a good company bashing another. If VBC comes and comments I will sure read that. Also your responses are quick, I might have to look into some of DBT's products

P.S.
I love the purple skin

=) Thanks for the compliments on the skin, and of course you're welcome back any time.

We always do our best to answer as quickly as possible, and I have absolutely no problem with you questioning the email - from your original perspective it cetainly made sense for you to do so - I hope my explanation made the reasoning behind it more clear to you though =)

I want to thank Trekkan for allowing us to make this post, as it could be an embarassing thing to admit to - that you have been put on a global ignore list by an admin, I imagine thats not a pleasant feeling for anyone.

So thanks Trekkan for allowing us to tell your story here so our post had context.

 

[PixelFX]

I untachy dacado, but I felt the posts that were/are made were underhanded advertising attempts and to make our products look buggy and unuseful in the eyes of those we emailed for our press release. I stated that 3rd party advertising is not acceptable, in any shape or form. As I can see from posts above which I haven't completely read, I seemed to off offended some users here, this was not the intent, we are extremely busy working on our products, stuff like this only serves to waste everyone time and is completely unprofessional.

While darkwaltz4 worked at vbcredits.com he was paid by PixelFX Studios via commission and paid directly to develop systems for us. With him leaving, I wished him well, however we retain all/full ownership of our software. To release software at this site with our name on it here is copyright infringement. I've signed nothing that gives dbtech ownership of our software.

This entire thread feels like a which hunt!

 

[Cosmic]

I untachy dacado, but I felt the posts that were/are made were underhanded advertising attempts and to make our products look buggy and unuseful in the eyes of those we emailed for our press release. I stated that 3rd party advertising is not acceptable, in any shape or form. As I can see from posts above which I haven't completely read, I seemed to off offended some users here, this was not the intent, we are extremely busy working on our products, stuff like this only serves to waste everyone time and is completely unprofessional.

While darkwaltz4 worked at vbcredits.com he was paid by PixelFX Studios via commission and paid directly to develop systems for us. With him leaving, I wished him well, however we retain all/full ownership of our software. To release software at this site with our name on it here is copyright infringement. I've signed nothing that gives dbtech ownership of our software.

Sorry Rob, but at no point did john sign any contract giving any of his work to you.

As a result, all work he produced belongs to him. He has allowed you to continue selling it as a courtesy, but if you want to have a spat about ownership then feel free to do so.

Personally I'm happy for our two companies to do their own thing (and there are posts from you previously saying the same thing) But if you have suddenly decided to be petty, that is up to you.

I will leave it up to John whether or not he demands you remove all code which he owns the copyright to, as it's not my decision.

If you feel this is incorrect, please feel free to supply me with Johns signed contract of employment from pixelFXstudios, as well as tax invoices proving he was registered as an employee of pixelFXstudios. Thanks.

Cosmic

 

[Trekkan]

I untachy dacado, but I felt the posts that were/are made were underhanded advertising attempts and to make our products look buggy and unuseful in the eyes of those we emailed for our press release. I stated that 3rd party advertising is not acceptable, in any shape or form. As I can see from posts above which I haven't completely read, I seemed to off offended some users here, this was not the intent, we are extremely busy working on our products, stuff like this only serves to waste everyone time and is completely unprofessional.

While darkwaltz4 worked at vbcredits.com he was paid by PixelFX Studios via commission and paid directly to develop systems for us. With him leaving, I wished him well, however we retain all/full ownership of our software. To release software at this site with our name on it here is copyright infringement. I've signed nothing that gives dbtech ownership of our software.

This entire thread feels like a which hunt!

Seriously? This? This is it?

Stuff like what? My post? really? <<< See all of those question marks? Yeah, look another one... It's because there's a big "WTF?" going on in my head right now.

Then you threaten DBTech over it? Really?!

My post said nothing about your software being buggy, I mentioned the DBTech name (ONCE, no products, no links, nothing else). If you are referring to Cosmic's post, I'm pretty sure he was only referring to YOUR OWN COMMENTS about working out the bugs! You're just... an unstable one aren't you?

Anyway... it's called a "witch hunt", just in-case you want to use that term again, you might as well be correct.